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Pedro Merino Gonzalez wrote: > > I'm studying Xilinx information about one of their new parts: the > XC6200. When I saw the architecture, I thought that it was possible to map > only one gate for each cell (they have only one functional unit and each > FU is capable of implementing only one gate). If you look at the table > of characteristics of these FPGAs they say that the XC6216 has 4096 > cells (64x64) but the maximum number of logic gates is 24,000 <snip> No one can explain it, the gate counting methodology was developed by marketing types so you have to realize that they don't understand it either. Pedro, you are comparing apples to oranges. When you say "map only one gate for each cell" you are thinking about functional gates like nand gates or xor gates etc. You are thinking of gates from a user perspective (certainly not a marketing perspective). These gates then feed a FF to form a cell. Cells are the best metric to evaluate FPGAs. The information of 24000 doesn't even represent the number of physical gates (read transistor gate elements), it is a magic number to compare relative sizes by one vendor. BTW are you aware that the XC6200 family is recommended for co-processor interface applications? Cheers Tim. -- You better be doing something so that in the future you can look back on "the good old days" My opinions != Nortel's opinion; Nortel's Hardware :-)Article: 6651
In article <339B9E48.1FC6@e-technik.uni-rostock.de>, Andreas Wassatsch <wa11@e-technik.uni-rostock.de> wrote: >Hello, > >i have a problem with the readback on the xc40xx. > >has anyone some information to or expierences with this feature ? I have used the readback feature on the XC4003A and XC4005E. I have yet to try it on my brand-spanking new XC4010E. I used the Xchecker pod (it is probably the only option) and did asynchronous debugging. Async was used because I didn't want to hack and slash the target board. I was still able to extract the information I needed out of my registers inside the Xilinx -- it saved at least a week of head scratching by being able to do this. If you have the board space for a full Xchecker connection I recommend it - at least for developing. Other people here just plug the pod into the 8 pin PROM socket, but they have no debugging facilities then. Dave.Article: 6652
Pedro Merino Gonzalez wrote: > > I'm studying Xilinx information about one of their new parts: the > XC6200. When I saw the architecture, I thought that it was possible to map > only one gate for each cell (they have only one functional unit and each > FU is capable of implementing only one gate). If you look at the table > of characteristics of these FPGAs they say that the XC6216 has 4096 > cells (64x64) but the maximum number of logic gates is 24,000 > > Is there anybody able to explain this to me? Every cell in the XC6200 line can be a two input gate (1 gate) or a mux (3 gates) - and a register (4 gates). So there are 4K cells in the XC6216 the highest gate count would be 7 * 4K = 28K. The lowest gate count would be 4K. Of course there is a utilization factor depending on your design. The best figure of how big a part is (IMHO) how many full adders feeding registers can you have in a part. If I count a full adder as 5 gates and a register as 4 gates then a adder feeding a register is 9 gates. In the 6216 there 4K cells it takes 3 cells to make a full adder and there are registers all over so 4K/3 * 9 = 12288 gates. The 4013 has 24x24 cells each of which can have 2 full adders and 2 registers (18 gates). 24*24*18 gates = 10368 gates. If you look at the ratios the 6216 is right in there are far as marketing gates go. -- Steve Casselman, President Virtual Computer Corporation http://www.vcc.com -- Steve Casselman, President Virtual Computer Corporation http://www.vcc.comArticle: 6653
Upstate NY; Senior Engineer; FPGA; Altera;High Speed Digital. 5+ Years Exp. Must have: signal processing, algorithms, high speed digital design (40-50 MegaHertz), FPGAs, and exposure to imaging &/or sensor systems applications. Client using ViewLogic and Spice CAE/CAD tools. 60-70% design/ detailed design; 30-40% systems level work. TO $48-75K Please refer to JO# 582RJS in your response. Richard Steinman Team Leader rjs@cmagroup.com IT & Software Solutions Team Career Marketing Associates http://www.cmagroup.com/IT.htmlArticle: 6654
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rhodes@gigaops.com wrote: > > In <3389f515.2357106@news.on.net>, stuart.summerville@practel.com.au (Stuart Summerville) writes: > >Hi all, > > > >I have a 208pin PQFP fpga (0.5mm pitch) on a board. I am having > >problems with pin connections to the board. Attempting to re-heat the > >solder to make a clean connection seems to create problems with > >surrounding pins - it doesn't take much to get a minute solder bridge > >between two pins. > > > To engineers and technicians concerned with QFP208 soldering problems/techniques > - > > QFP208s and QFP240s are soldered by hand by technicians in the South Bay > (SF bay) by a drag technique which some in this thread have described. PACE has a great solder tip to solder by hand 0.5mm pitch (20 mils). It's called MicroWave. We've been using it for 208 PQFP packages and 48 pins ssop flash-roms. Works great. I'm an enginner (aka: bad technician) and it takes me about 5 minutes to solder a 208 pqfp. PatrickArticle: 6656
As has been said earlier, M1 is the first fruit of the NeoCad merger with Xilinx XNF is still in this first version, but will be dropped from future versions. Homegrown tools will have to be converted to EDIF 2.0.0 to work with future tools. Simon Bacon <SimonBacon@tile.demon.co.uk> wrote in article <864483367snz@tile.demon.co.uk>... > For those of us who are not on the M1 pre-release program - possibly > because we don't have paid-up software support - what is M1? > > From other posts, it sounds as if XNF is being dropped. Is that > correct? > > Will we have to abandon our home-grown tools which manipulate > and/or generate XNF? > > --- > Regards > Simon > >Article: 6657
okay in a the sample design i have include the macro "rdbk". =2E.. CCLK : in std_logic; TM0 : in std_logic; TM1 : out std_logic; =2E.. component RDBK port( TRIG : in std_logic; DATA : out std_logic; RIP : out std_logic ); end component; =2E.. I_RDBACK : RDBK port map ( TRIG =3D> TM0, DATA =3D> TM1 ); =2E.. then i try to connect the the io's to the pins as follow ( synopsys ) set_attribute "CCLK" "pad_location" -type string "P73" set_attribute "TM0" "pad_location" -type string "P32" set_attribute "TM1" "pad_location" -type string "P30" but xnfprep reports : XNFPREP Errors -------------- XNFPREP: ERROR 4546: = The pad `TM0' has an invalid LOC parameter value `P32'. = The location `P32' is not a valid I/O pin on the part `4003APC84'. = XNFPREP: ERROR 4546: = The pad `TM1' has an invalid LOC parameter value `P30'. = The location `P30' is not a valid I/O pin on the part `4003APC84'. = and no connections a build between the readbk-component and the io-pins i use xact 5.2.1, a 4003A(PLC84) on the xilinx fpga-demoboard -- = # Andreas Wassatsch Tel: +49 (0)381 498 3533 # University Rostock Fax: +49 (0)381 498 1126 # Department of Electrical Engineering # Institute of Applied Microelectronics and Computer Science # Richard-Wagner-Str. 31 # 18119 Rostock-Warnem=FCnde email: wa11@e-technik.uni-rostock.de= # Germany WWW: http://www-md.e-technik.uni-rostock.de/~wa11Article: 6658
Hi, has anyone used the ISP function of the serial ATMEL Boot Proms 17C65, 17C256 to change the Prom contents on the fly by a microcontroller or Host CPU? Any hints or possible problems? Is there a source code available for downloading a bitstream via PC? Stephan -- Dipl. Ing. Stephan Gick + FhG IIS Tel. +49 (0)9131-776521 + Abteilung ESY-B Fax: +49 (0)9131-776599 + Am Weichselgarten 3 EMail: gck@iis.fhg.de + D-91058 Erlangen http://www.iis.fhg.de/departs/esy/index.htmlArticle: 6659
Stephan Gick wrote: > > Hi, > has anyone used the ISP function of the serial ATMEL Boot Proms 17C65, > 17C256 to change the Prom contents on the fly by a microcontroller or > Host CPU? I did that a long while ago (when they first came out). It's not too difficult to do, since it's an IIC protocol. The only thing I had trouble with, and which wasn't mentionned in the early datasheets, was that these things are FLASH-based, and hence they need to be programmed in blocks of 64 (?) bytes. That's where the datasheets stopped. What they didn't tell was that after writing a block, you have to wait for a while for the FLASH architecture to "update" the block. I suspect they use the same architecture as in their generic FLASH PROMS, which use a RAM "buffer" for an entire sector, which is used as a sort of cache. Once the cache buffer is full, it is transferred into the FLASH memory bank in one blast. But that blast takes a while, and the ATMEL EEPROMs don't respond to any IIC command until that's done. So you can't even probe some register to see if they're "ready". You can only tell be the irresponsive IIC interface. Oh yeah, if you program them for XILINX, don't reverse the bits as the datasheet suggests. For Altera, you need to do that. In this case, I suspect they wanted to avoid paying any license fees to Philips for using the IIC protocol, so they didn't name it IIC, and they made sure to make it non-compliant (on paper) by specifying the inverse bit-order as used by the IIC spec. Koen.Article: 6660
On Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:25:25 +0200, koen Gadeyne <koen.gadeyne@barco.com> wrote: >Stephan Gick wrote: >> >> Hi, >> has anyone used the ISP function of the serial ATMEL Boot Proms 17C65, >> 17C256 to change the Prom contents on the fly by a microcontroller or >> Host CPU? > I have a board with an AT17C65 booting an Atmel AT6005 FPGA. The onboard AT17C65 (I use the SOIC version, which is soldered) can be programmed either through a cable using Atmel's CF.EXE download software, or through my own software which drives the I2C lines from my PCI interface (the chips are located on a PCI board). UdiArticle: 6661
koen Gadeyne (koen.gadeyne@barco.com) wrote: : Stephan Gick wrote: : > : > Hi, : > has anyone used the ISP function of the serial ATMEL Boot Proms 17C65, : > 17C256 to change the Prom contents on the fly by a microcontroller or : > Host CPU? : I did that a long while ago (when they first came out). It's not too : difficult to do, since it's an IIC protocol. The only thing I had : trouble with, and which wasn't mentionned in the early datasheets, was : that these things are FLASH-based, and hence they need to be programmed : in blocks of 64 (?) bytes. That's where the datasheets stopped. What : they didn't tell was that after writing a block, you have to wait for a : while for the FLASH architecture to "update" the block. The data sheet specifies that when the "STOP" bit is sent (at the end of the WRITE instruction/data stream) the device will enter an internally timed write cycle, during which it will not ACK any data requests. It also specifies that this time is 10 ms (worst case). The data sheet ALSO states that the device can be "polled" during the write cycle; as soon as it ACK's a device address it can be accessed again (typical page write time is about 2 to 3 ms). : I suspect they use the same architecture as in their generic FLASH : PROMS, which use a RAM "buffer" for an entire sector, which is used as a : sort of cache. Once the cache buffer is full, it is transferred into the : FLASH memory bank in one blast. Sort of, but not quite. : But that blast takes a while, and the ATMEL EEPROMs don't respond to any : IIC command until that's done. So you can't even probe some register to : see if they're "ready". You can only tell be the irresponsive IIC : interface. Not at all; see above. You can easily find out *exactly* when the device is done. : Oh yeah, if you program them for XILINX, don't reverse the bits as the : datasheet suggests. For Altera, you need to do that. In this case, I : suspect they wanted to avoid paying any license fees to Philips for : using the IIC protocol, so they didn't name it IIC, and they made sure : to make it non-compliant (on paper) by specifying the inverse bit-order : as used by the IIC spec. Hmm ... I don't know where this comes from; the data byte ordering is identical to the Xilinx device requirements. : Koen. The Atmel FPGA Configuration memories make it very straightforward to implement an in-system reprogrammable FPGA data storage solution. The Atmel WWW page has detailed instructions and examples, and app notes are available. Disclaimer: I designed the chip family and work at the company that sells them. Obviously that affects my perceptions :) glen rosendale (glen@atmel.com)Article: 6662
Glen Rosendale wrote: > The data sheet specifies that when the "STOP" bit is sent (at the end > of the WRITE instruction/data stream) the device will enter an > internally timed write cycle, during which it will not ACK any data > requests. It also specifies that this time is 10 ms (worst case). > > The data sheet ALSO states that the device can be "polled" during > the write cycle; as soon as it ACK's a device address it can be > accessed again (typical page write time is about 2 to 3 ms). [...] During this write cycle, the device dosn't recognize the START bit, so I have to send a START bit before each device adress byte in this polling loop, right? When I send only one START bit and then loop sending the device adress byte and listening for the ACK, I never get an ACK. I tried to change the polarity of the RESET/_OE pin to _RESET/OE ("_" indicates active low) of the AT17C128 in the following manner (as described in the programming specification): 1. set all pins to 5V (at power up) (except pin A2 which has a resistor of 4.7k to ground) 2. set CLOCK = 0V 3. set RESET/_OE = 0V (if already _RESET/OE then the device is reset now, otherwise in state 1) 4. set _SER_EN = 0V and RESET/_OE = 5V (_CE remains high) 5. write a START bit 6. write a device adress byte 7. write a byte of 3F (MSB first) \ 8. write a byte of FF (MSB first :-) ) / this gives EEPROM Adress 3FFF 9. write a byte of FF (one data byte) 10. write a STOP bit 11. wait 1 second (enough?) 12. set _SER_EN = 5V 13. set CLK = 5V (all pins are driven by a Xilinx FPGA so they are at 5V until end of configuration of the FPGA) but the polarity of pin RESET/_OE doesn't change. What's wrong? (I tried both RESET/_OE = 5V and =0V during steps 4 to 12). The routines generating the START and STOP bit and the adress/data bytes seem to work right; I have looked at the pins with a logic analyzer, and I can program the memory array. Sorry for my english Werner ---------------------------------------------------------------- Werner Dreher dreher@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de University of Tuebingen Technische Informatik / Computer Engineering Sand 13 D-72076 Tuebingen, GermanyArticle: 6663
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> |> I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow > |> me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some > |> information about the ISA interfaces, but basically nothing usefull > |> about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I > |> should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or > |> literature). > > If you don't want to spend more than half a year in designing/testing your own > PCI implementation, try some of-the-shelf chips (maybe there are more...): If it takes you 'half a year' to do a target implementation (which is what they guy mentioned he wanted to do) in an FPGA, you might want to consider getting outside help. This should take someone about 3 months if they don't know anything about the PCI bus, or the FPGA tools etc. Most of the work isn't in the PCI target interface, it is in the back end interface. A master is a different story...that's a bit tougher... Austin Franklin darkroom@ix.netcom.comArticle: 6665
Please explain this to me. For years cameras and military electronics, my print head, have used flexible epoxy circuits. Perhaps there is something in this question I don't get, I haven't USED these products. One other product I haven't used is a pen for making repairs, leaves a silver epoxy. Also I have USED special ball point pens that are usually used for making on photo's, floppies. They work like a Paint spray can/ball point pen. Why isn't there a product like a pen or epoxy that can be used to repair fine pitched ic's or MAKE them is small QTY. I am thinking that this can't be too hard to pull off. Mask Develop Etch Board, Mount Components, Using Superglue.:) Make final connections with a pen or epoxy or Photocoating, SEE YA BYE. Stuart Summerville <stuart.summerville@practel.com.au> wrote in article <3389f515.2357106@news.on.net>... > Hi all, > > I have a 208pin PQFP fpga (0.5mm pitch) on a board. I am having > problems with pin connections to the board. Attempting to re-heat the > solder to make a clean connection seems to create problems with > surrounding pins - it doesn't take much to get a minute solder bridge > between two pins. > > Two questions: > > 1) Do any of you find such packages tend to come in with such > connection problems? > > 2) What is the feeling about attempting to re-solder such pins if a > connection seems to be flakey? Am I wasting my time trying to fix it? > Maybe if some pins have flakey connections then others on the same > chip are likely to (eg. if some are bent down too much, then obviously > the others are at a different level...). > > Regards, Stu. > --------------------------------------------- > Stuart Summerville > Project Engineer > Practel International > 442 Torrens Road, Kilkenny, SA 5009 > Tel: (61.8) 8268 2196 Fax: (61.8) 8268 2882 > Email: stuart.summerville@practel.com.au > --------------------------------------------- >Article: 6666
> : Stephan Gick wrote: > : > > : > Hi, > : > has anyone used the ISP function of the serial ATMEL Boot Proms 17C65, > : > 17C256 to change the Prom contents on the fly by a microcontroller or > : > Host CPU? For more information check-out.... http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/fpga/fpga1.html or e-mail configurator@atmel.com Martin Mason Configurator Apps. Atmel Corp.Article: 6667
>Or just slice the pins off very close to the package with a sharp knife, >then nip round and desolder many pins at a time using a biggish tip and >a blob of solder. IME, far less likely to kill pads / tracks that way. I generally agree, although lately I have come round to the view that this is dodgy on reall fine pitch packages such as TSOP, because the PCB pads are so small that if the knife gets pushed in a bit too far, causing the lead to be displaced away from the package, it tends to rip the pad off the board. The best way to remove TSOPs is with a desoldering bit which melts the whole lot in one go. But with SOP etc this is the best way. Peter. Return address is invalid to help stop junk mail. E-mail replies to z80@digiserve.com.Article: 6668
Does anyone know where I can obtain the programming details (algorithms hardware etc) for the Xilinx XC1700D SPROM series? Thanks, Paul Hatcher hephat@dial.pipex.comArticle: 6669
Try this web site: http://www.vchips.com/products.htm Ivan Hamer <ivan@caseware.com> wrote in article <3395d321.22329448@news.caseware.com>... > > I would like to make a simple PCI interface card that would allow > me to do some basic I/O with 'outside world'. I found quite some > information about the ISA interfaces, but basically nothing usefull > about PCI. I would be very thankfull if someone could tell me how I > should approach this problem (point me to some resources on net, or > literature). > > Ivan Hamer (ivan.hamer@toronto.edu). >Article: 6670
I have successfully used the ISP function. I am using three daisy-chained AT17C256 to program four daisy-chained XC52xx FPGAs. One of the FPGAs contains a simple state machine to controll the ISP functionallity and to reboot the system. The Atmel documentation is complete but not very clear. You can it find at theirs web cite. The thing I did not realize at first was: one has to program pages of 64 byte and then wait until programming is done. After realizing that, I found all the information in the documentation. Good luck. -- Erwin Oertli Tel: +41-1-63 27333 Institut für Computersysteme Fax: +41-1-63 21307 ETH Zentrum mailto:oertli@inf.ethz.ch CH-8092 Zürich, Switzerland http://www.cs.inf.ethz.ch/~oertli/ Stephan Gick <gck@iis.fhg.de> wrote in article <339D036E.78BE@iis.fhg.de>... > Hi, > has anyone used the ISP function of the serial ATMEL Boot Proms 17C65, > 17C256 to change the Prom contents on the fly by a microcontroller or > Host CPU? > Any hints or possible problems? Is there a source code available for > downloading a bitstream via PC? > Stephan > > -- > Dipl. Ing. Stephan Gick + FhG IIS > Tel. +49 (0)9131-776521 + Abteilung ESY-B > Fax: +49 (0)9131-776599 + Am Weichselgarten 3 > EMail: gck@iis.fhg.de + D-91058 Erlangen > http://www.iis.fhg.de/departs/esy/index.html >Article: 6671
I believe that you can only get it from Xilinx. I'd try sending a message to 'hotline@xilinx.com' with your request. -- Steven Knapp OptiMagic(tm) Logic Design Solutions E-mail: sknapp @ optimagic.com Programmable Logic Jump Station: http://www.optimagic.com Paul Hatcher <hephat@dial.pipx.com> wrote in article <339E5D8A.4893816A@dial.pipx.com>... | | Does anyone know where I can obtain the programming details (algorithms | hardware etc) for the Xilinx XC1700D SPROM series? | | Thanks, | | Paul Hatcher | hephat@dial.pipex.com | |Article: 6672
Title: Digital Hardware Designer Location: Redmond, WA or Austin, TX Duties: Member of a high performance team designing state-of-the-art emulation hardware to support X86 architecture. Requirements: 3 years experience doing embedded microprocessor-based digital design. Knowledge of the X86, 16, and 32 bit architectures is a real plus. Knowledge of Assembly and C. Experience in designing with various forms of programmable logic PAL's, GAL's, FPGA, etc. Understanding of microprocessor emulation and the operation of emulators. -- -- Robin Morneault Professional Recruiter Career Consultants Staffing Services 512-346-6660 voice 512-346-6714 fax headhunter@eden.com Career Consultants Staffing Services, Inc. has been professionally staffing for 25 years as a full service staffing firm that provides executive search, direct hire, contract, technical and temporary services.Article: 6673
Title: Digital Hardware Designer Location: Redmond, WA or Austin, TX Duties: Member of a high performance team designing state-of-the-art emulation hardware to support X86 architecture. Requirements: 3 years experience doing embedded microprocessor-based digital design. Knowledge of the X86, 16, and 32 bit architectures is a real plus. Knowledge of Assembly and C. Experience in designing with various forms of programmable logic PAL's, GAL's, FPGA, etc. Understanding of microprocessor emulation and the operation of emulators. -- -- Robin Morneault Professional Recruiter Career Consultants Staffing Services 512-346-6660 voice 512-346-6714 fax headhunter@eden.com Career Consultants Staffing Services, Inc. has been professionally staffing for 25 years as a full service staffing firm that provides executive search, direct hire, contract, technical and temporary services.Article: 6674
Title: Test/Development Engineer Location: Redmond, WA Duties: Design and develop manufacturing tests for new variants of a high -profile product line of software analysis tools. Development of the tests will require the individual to gain detailed knowledge of the latest microprocessors on the market and write applications which run on them. Participate in the development of the hardware for new product variants by assessing testability. Requirements: Must have a BSEE/CS and 3+ years experience in hardware test/design, including expertise in embedded C/C++ programming. Experience in developing manufacturing tests, and a familiarity with FPGA's, hardware simulation packages, and embedded real-time operation systems is desirable. Robin Morneault Professional Recruiter Career Consultants Staffing Services 512-346-6660 voice 512-346-6714 fax headhunter@eden.com Career Consultants Staffing Services, Inc. has been professionally staffing for 25 years as a full service staffing firm that provides executive search, direct hire, contract, technical and temporary services.
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