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Messages from 12000

Article: 12000
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: "Gareth Baron" <Gareth.Baron@eng.efi.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:26:02 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
We are doing that at the moment.  Yes it is a pig !!  The way we do it is by
the use of 0.1" headers on the PCI card itself.  This allows you to put the
Analyser probes on to the signals directly.  I would strongly advise you to
stay clear of PCI Extender cards as these can mess up your timings.


My $0.02 worth.

dan wrote in message <360924FC.569E@cat-envisys.com>...
>Andrew Phillips wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Trying to test some PCI cards - it's not easy to probe signals etc when
>> the card is stuck inside a normal PC with other PCI cards alongside ...
>>
>> Anybody found a better prototype PCI card test system set-up - i.e. one
>> that allows easy access to both sides of the card being tested?
>>
>> Thanks for any pointers ...
>>
>> Andy Phillips
>> Supercomputing Systems AG
>> Zurich, Switzerland
>
>Hi Andy,
>
>I have not had a need to do much card development lately, but when
>I was building/testing ISA card regularly, I really liked the card
>extenders that Digikey/Jameco and many others sell.  These simply
>raise the card in the slot above the height of the others.  In fact,
>the best arrangement came by simply chopping a slot in the side/top
>of the case and surrounding it with nonconductive edge guards so the
>case could be closed but my development slot was still accessible.
>Simple... but it worked.
>
>I am sure that PCI extender cards are available somewhere.  Check
>Vector Electronics product line (Digikey is a distributer).
>
>Cheers,
>Dan


Article: 12001
Subject: Re: fpga-asic
From: "Flor Netsmar" <Florn5@aol.com>
Date: 23 Sep 1998 15:48:03 -0500
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

If you have synthesizable VHDL for your design, you will
re-sinthesize using an ASIC gate library instead of the
Altera 10K20 FPGA library.

However, "translating" is a different story. Translating
means you are "mapping" equivalent gates from the FPGA
library to the ASIC library. This is more difficult. I
don't think it is possible to load an FPGA-based netlist
in a synthesizer and then switch the library to optimize
to another library (in your case switch to an ASIC library).

In terms of timing, "mapping" means you (or a tool) are finding
equivalent gates, inverters and flip-flops with the same
drive, so timing will remain the same. However, timing depends
also in the interconnect wiring between these gates, and you
will have a different placement and routing in your ASIC. So
this means that timing will change too. So the only way to
find out if your design still works in the ASIC, after placing
the netlist in the ASIC, is by simulating it again, with the
new interconnect loads.

Everybody says Accolade has a good tool for the money. It may
be true. You can download their tool and test it yourself.



John Huang wrote in message <6u8ue8$92b$1@news.seed.net.tw>...
>Hello all:
>    I have a FPGA design in ALTERA 10K20, and now I want to
>translate it into ASIC, would you tell me what is important about
>translation? does timing will change? how to keep the result current?
>
>Thanks
> John Huang
>
>


Article: 12002
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: Jerry Avins <jxyzavins@erols.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:20:29 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Dan's way is the first thing I would try, but be aware that some boards
simply won't work on an extender. The extra capacatance and bus length
puts them over the timing edge.

Jerry
-- 
If my address has "x" or "z" in it, remove them to reply.

Never ascribe to malice what might be be ignorance, stupidity, or sloth.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
dan wrote:
> 
> Andrew Phillips wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Trying to test some PCI cards - it's not easy to probe signals etc when
> > the card is stuck inside a normal PC with other PCI cards alongside ...
> >
[snip]
> >
> > Andy Phillips
> > Supercomputing Systems AG
> > Zurich, Switzerland
> 
> Hi Andy,
> 
> I have not had a need to do much card development lately, but when
> I was building/testing ISA card regularly, I really liked the card
> extenders that Digikey/Jameco and many others sell.  These simply
> raise the card in the slot above the height of the others.  In fact,
> the best arrangement came by simply chopping a slot in the side/top
> of the case and surrounding it with nonconductive edge guards so the
> case could be closed but my development slot was still accessible.
> Simple... but it worked.
> 
> I am sure that PCI extender cards are available somewhere.  Check
> Vector Electronics product line (Digikey is a distributer).
> 
> Cheers,
> Dan
Article: 12003
Subject: Re: Dynamic pattern matching in Xilinx FPGAs
From: gah@ugcs.caltech.edu (glen herrmannsfeldt)
Date: 23 Sep 1998 23:14:47 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
ems@nospam.riverside-machines.com writes:

(snip)

>quick thought: the micro writes the compare data stream into a fifo.
>this gives you maximum density on the compare data. when you get a new
>word into your device, just pop one word out of the fifo, and compare
>it against your new input data - ie. you only need one comparator.
>this is much more efficient for long compares.

>the edge decoders probably wont give you a speed advantage, since you
>still have to do something with your compare answer once you've got it
>(and spartan doesn't have edge decoders anyway).

In the cases I know, this won't work.  That is, in general you don't know
where the start is, but want to match wherever the data pattern appears in
the data stream.  

A state machine, actually, a Deterministic Finite State Automaton,
is a good way, depending on data width and length.  

-- glen
Article: 12004
Subject: Re: Efficient max-function architecture?
From: gah@ugcs.caltech.edu (glen herrmannsfeldt)
Date: 23 Sep 1998 23:25:10 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
"John Funnell" <j.funnell@dmv.co.uk> writes:


>Hi,

>I'm trying to think of an efficient implementation of an max-function that
>finds the largest from 16 unsigned 8-bit numbers.  The input format is not
>specified (I decide parallel binary, serial LSB first, serial MSB first). 
>The max-function must signal which of its inputs was the largest and the
>value of that input.  What can I do to mimise FPGA area used and maintain a
>continuous flow of input data?  Is there anything clever I can do?  

8 bit max can be done in 5 CLB.  Program as a normal subtract circuit.
The last CLB will have an unused FG.  Use this to determine the sign
of the result of the subtract.  Feed this signla down to the unused input
of the FG in the subtractor, and configure the LUT as mux logic.  

The greater/not greater is done by the carry logic alone.  The LUT do
the mux logic.  I don't know that any synthesis or routing tools will 
figure this out.  I hand coded it using LCAedit, and then use it as an RPM
from verilog source.

Home this helps,

-- glen
Article: 12005
Subject: Re: Efficient max-function architecture?
From: Ray Andraka <no_spam_randraka@ids.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:19:47 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
This is the same as a macro I use.  Synthesis won't create this structure
without alot of monkeying around.  With schematics it works just fine with a few
RLOCs and FMAPs.  I have 2 bit min/max slice macro that has the FMAPs and RLOCs
inside it (inverting the control signal as it comes out of the msb provides min
or max).  On the next level up, you put down as many of these as you need to get
the desired width and put RLOCs on them to arrange the 2 bit macros in a
column.  You'll need a special macro at the top and bottom of the column.  Using
this technique, you can build carry chain circuits of arbitrary widths very
quickly (use the array command in you schematic editor to do it even quicker)
using a library of basic 1 and 2 bit macro slices.  Since it is relatively
pre-placed, it breezes through place and route too.   I see no need to do it in
LCAedit, seems like more work and harder to verify that way.  You can take the
schematic result and instantiate that if you want to use the structure under an
HDL.


glen herrmannsfeldt wrote:

> 8 bit max can be done in 5 CLB.  Program as a normal subtract circuit.
> The last CLB will have an unused FG.  Use this to determine the sign
> of the result of the subtract.  Feed this signla down to the unused input
> of the FG in the subtractor, and configure the LUT as mux logic.
>
> The greater/not greater is done by the carry logic alone.  The LUT do
> the mux logic.  I don't know that any synthesis or routing tools will
> figure this out.  I hand coded it using LCAedit, and then use it as an RPM
> from verilog source.
>
> Home this helps,

   ^^^^ but does it help away from home too?

--
-Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930     Fax 401/884-7950
email randraka@ids.net
http://users.ids.net/~randraka


Article: 12006
Subject: US ASIC jobs+work visa
From: garynlang@aol.com (Garynlang)
Date: 24 Sep 1998 00:49:55 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>

We have several job opportunities in Phoenix
(nice quite, no crime,  low living cost city in Arizona)
for ASIC/FPGA people at a $600 mil. IC design 
company.  And  we need CAD SW people as well.
Position: Design engineer, will be responsible for the 
design and development of low power high speed products
based upon embedded RISC and DSP cores.
Requirements:
BSEE, MSEE, (university degree) 
2++ year experience (the more the better), English language
skill.  
Pls. send your TXT resume as an EMAIL TXT only 
(pls do not send MS-WORD document).
We provide US work visa for 4,8+ years.
Laslo and Gary
 

Gary N. Lang
Vice President of ACD,Inc.
E-mail: garynlang@aol.com
http://www.acdcon.com/
Article: 12007
Subject: Over 1000 semiconductor links!
From: "A.Tillmann" <a.tillmann@t-online.de>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:13:01 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hello,

please visit MY SEMICONDUCTOR LINKPAGE at

http://home.t-online.de/home/a.tillmann

where you can find semiconductor related links in the following 
categories:

Companies 
     Wafer Manufacturers(19) 
     Equipment Vendors(432) 
     Used Equipment/ Refurbished Equipment(14) 
     IC Manufacturers/ Foundries(290) 
     Software/ Process and Device Simulation(37) 
     Service/ Photomask Manufacturers/ Others(76) 
     Consultants(8) 
Universities/ Institutes(48) 
Journals(14) 
Organisations/ Directories/ Linkpages 
     U.S.A.(29) 
     Japan(11) 
     Europe(7) 
News(5) 
Usenet Groups(14) 
Online Shop 
     Software(4) 
     Books(67) 
Search Engines (english)(31) 
Search Engines (french, german)(6) 
Jobs/ Recruitment(9) 

If you would like to add a link please send me the company (or 
organization) name, the category and the URL.

Best regards
Article: 12008
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroo3m@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 24 Sep 1998 04:39:13 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
There are four ways to do what I believe you are trying to do.

1) buy a PCI bus analyzer from either VMETRO, HP or Catylist

2) Use an extender card that has a PCI bridge on it.  This is the ONLY way
to use an extender card and maintain the PCI spec....ANY extender card that
DOES NOT have a bridge on it, violates the PCI spec. International Product
Design offers one....

3) Use a very well designed ACTIVE extender card.  The best one out there
is from UltraView, called PCIEXT64.

4) Use a PASSIVE extender card.  There is one that is VERY short, and gives
you probe points made by International Product Design.

I believe all four of them are available from Twin Industries (800) 570
TWIN.

URL:

http://www.twinhunter.com/Products/T_PCI_Prod.htm

No, I don't work for Twin, or any of the above companies, but I did help
them (and others) design and test their extender cards.  Choice 3 is a very
good choice (I mostly use this exact same card) if you don't have $5k to
spend on 1 (I have a VMetro too, but I really like to use the extender card
for some reason...).  Choice 2 can cause you 'some' problems if your system
doesn't handle bridges well....

Austin Franklin
darkroom@ix.netcom.com


Andrew Phillips <andrew@scs.ch> wrote in article
<36091AC3.C733E671@scs.ch>...
> Hi,
> 
> Trying to test some PCI cards - it's not easy to probe signals etc when
> the card is stuck inside a normal PC with other PCI cards alongside ...
> 
> Anybody found a better prototype PCI card test system set-up - i.e. one
> that allows easy access to both sides of the card being tested?
> 
> Thanks for any pointers ...
> 
> Andy Phillips
> Supercomputing Systems AG
> Zurich, Switzerland
> 


Article: 12009
Subject: Which FPGA tool is better
From: "John Huang" <hungi@tpts4.seed.net.tw>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:55:25 +0800
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I want to buy a FPGA tool, do you recommand which
one is better, how about Accolade  and Aldec?

John Huang



Article: 12010
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: Rene <rene.becker@exp2.physik.uni-giessen.de>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:52:58 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>


Andrew Phillips wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Trying to test some PCI cards - it's not easy to probe signals etc when
> the card is stuck inside a normal PC with other PCI cards alongside ...
>
> Anybody found a better prototype PCI card test system set-up - i.e. one
> that allows easy access to both sides of the card being tested?
>
> Thanks for any pointers ...
>
> Andy Phillips
> Supercomputing Systems AG
> Zurich, Switzerland

 Hello !

When we gained our first experiences with PCI we used a prototype board
from PLX technology.
This board is a PCI to ISA bridge equipped with an PLX9050 PCI Target
Interface Chip and contains test-points for all signals behind the PCI
Interface. This board was very usefull for driver development.
For monitoring the PCI-signals we used a PCI-Extender from CORELIS in
conjunction with a HP Logic-Analyzer. CORELIS
ships this extender with dedicated software for some of the HP analyzers.
The software package contains a PCI-Bus disassemler
which really simplifies debugging, because the PCI-actions are not only
displayed as numbers but are decoded for you. Its also possible to
filtrate  PCI  on interesting actions.




R.Becker
II.Physikalisches Institut
University of Giessen
35392 Giessen

Article: 12011
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: "Dr Mike Addlesee" <maddlesee@orl.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:02:12 +0100
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I have used a HP PCI bus analyser with a 1660 logic analyser which I found
very useful indeed. It uses an extender board into which the LA probes plug.
The effect of this board on PCI timing may be slightly deleterious - I
recommend a close reading of the PCI 2.1 spec and conservative design of the
PCI interface on your board. You will live to regret cutting corners with
PCI - don't do it ;-)
----
Dr Mike Addlesee
The Olivetti & Oracle Research Laboratory Limited
24a Trumpington Street
Cambridge CB2 1QA U.K.



Article: 12012
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: "Austin Franklin" <darkroo3m@ix.netcom.com>
Date: 24 Sep 1998 15:38:33 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
> For monitoring the PCI-signals we used a PCI-Extender from CORELIS in
> conjunction with a HP Logic-Analyzer. CORELIS
> ships this extender with dedicated software for some of the HP analyzers.

Be carefull using a product such as this 'PCI signal extender'.  All the
board is, is a PCI card with long cables (well, long in terms of a PCI bus
that is) that allows direct attachment logic analyzer pods.  It really
makes a MESS of the PCI bus signal intregity, and as such, can add much
more difficulty to your debugging task than you bargained for.

Austin

Article: 12013
Subject: shareware
From: "adria.bofill" <adria.bofill@imag.fr>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:48:52 +0000
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I am a newbie in vhdl-fpga.

Does Anyone know free/shareware for fpga design?

Thanx

Adria Bofill
Article: 12014
Subject: Re: How to reduce ringing/ground bounce from FPGA output pin?
From: "Manfred Kraus" <mkraus@xxcesys.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 17:56:23 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Try to use a series resistor. Its value should match the line impedance.
Maybe you will find 120 Ohm useful.

Regards Manfred





Article: 12015
Subject: Re: Which FPGA tool is better
From: "Son P. Huynh" <sphuynh@micron.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:01:53 -0600
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Try Aldec, their new Active-VHDL 3.2 with Fast Direct Compile...
Check it out at http://www.aldec.com/

Son Huynh

John Huang wrote in message <6uctfk$ht4$1@news.seed.net.tw>...
>I want to buy a FPGA tool, do you recommand which
>one is better, how about Accolade  and Aldec?
>
>John Huang
>
>
>

Article: 12016
Subject: Re: US ASIC jobs+work visa
From: pipjockey@my-dejanews.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:04:01 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
C'mon Gary, NO CRIME?

Rob Weinstein
Memec Design Services - Phoenix
rob_weinstein@memecdesignDOTcom

In article <19980923204955.09176.00001033@ng141.aol.com>,
  garynlang@aol.com (Garynlang) wrote:
>
> We have several job opportunities in Phoenix
> (nice quite, no crime,  low living cost city in Arizona)
> for ASIC/FPGA people at a $600 mil. IC design
> company.  And  we need CAD SW people as well.
> Position: Design engineer, will be responsible for the
> design and development of low power high speed products
> based upon embedded RISC and DSP cores.
> Requirements:
> BSEE, MSEE, (university degree)
> 2++ year experience (the more the better), English language
> skill.
> Pls. send your TXT resume as an EMAIL TXT only
> (pls do not send MS-WORD document).
> We provide US work visa for 4,8+ years.
> Laslo and Gary
>
> Gary N. Lang
> Vice President of ACD,Inc.
> E-mail: garynlang@aol.com
> http://www.acdcon.com/
>


--
Rob Weinstein
Memec Design Services - Phoenix
rob_weinstein@memecdesignDOTcom

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp   Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Article: 12017
Subject: Re: fpga-asic
From: "Gareth Baron" <Gareth.Baron@eng.efi.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 09:20:58 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I would talk to Altera directly about this.  I know, for example, that if
you are moving a Xilinx part to large productiuon runs the Xilinx will
produce a metalization layer for an ASIC instead of using the SRAM cells.
This effectively gives you an ASIC with the same peoperties as the original
FPGA/CPLD.

The other companies you may wish to talk to are ORBIT semiconductor as they
tout that they can produce ASICs from your FPGA circuits.


[StandardDisclaimer]
MyOpinionsOnly= ON


Gareth Baron


John Huang wrote in message <6u8ue8$92b$1@news.seed.net.tw>...
>Hello all:
>    I have a FPGA design in ALTERA 10K20, and now I want to
>translate it into ASIC, would you tell me what is important about
>translation? does timing will change? how to keep the result current?
>
>Thanks
> John Huang
>
>


Article: 12018
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: "Pascal Dornier" <pdornier@pcengines.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 10:11:44 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
For inexpensive (if not cheap) test adapters:

http://www.pcengines.com/test.htm 

(you could build your own, but it would cost more)

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Pascal Dornier   pdornier@pcengines.com     http://www.pcengines.com
Your Spec      + PC Engines            = Custom Embedded PC Hardware
--------------------------------------------------------------------


Article: 12019
Subject: strange problem of 4028XL
From: cpegfa@uxmail.ust.hk (Leprechaun)
Date: 24 Sep 1998 18:02:16 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi all,

I am using Xilinx XC4028XL-1-PG299 to implement a circuit. The utilization
is 100 % (all 1024 CLBs are used). After I download the circuit, I use a 
IMS Tester to test the chip. 
I found that for some output pin assignment, my circuit works well, but
for another, it just gives wrong result or just no result (all outputs 
stay zero).

I've done post-sim using the .sdf and .vhd files generated by M1 in synopsys
and the it works well (not any glitch problems ) and the timing 
requirement for my circuit is not tight at all.

does anyone have the same experience? I've already spent 2 weeks time in
debugging this problem but don't have any idea up till now.....

Thanks a lot.

Rgds,

Oliver

Article: 12020
Subject: IrDA infrared software protocol stack
From: bit_head
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:05:10 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Anyone interested in a truely embedded IrDA infrared 
software protocol stack should check out:

http://www.embednet.com

This stack is
. ANSI C compliant
. small (<10K bytes) 
. efficient ( Zero copy buffer management )
. RTOS ready
. simple to port
. well tested.
. not to forget: inexpensive (<$6k)


bobg@triax.com
"Pure Embedded Development Determination"
Article: 12021
Subject: Re: Which FPGA tool is better
From: James Doherty <jmdrmd@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 15:15:21 -0400
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>


John Huang wrote:

> I want to buy a FPGA tool, do you recommand which
> one is better, how about Accolade  and Aldec?
>
> John Huang

Feel free to evaluate our toolset as well. www.synario.com  www.minc.com

We support both the Accolade simulator and Model Sim. Drop me an email
if you have any questions or would like more info..
 jdoherty@synario.com

Jay Doherty
Minc Washington/Synario Design Automation


Article: 12022
Subject: Re: easier testing for PCI cards??
From: "Andy Peters" <apeters@noao.edu.NOSPAM>
Date: 24 Sep 1998 20:41:58 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Andrew Phillips <andrew@scs.ch> wrote in article
<36091AC3.C733E671@scs.ch>...
> Hi,
> 
> Trying to test some PCI cards - it's not easy to probe signals etc
when
> the card is stuck inside a normal PC with other PCI cards alongside
..
> 
> Anybody found a better prototype PCI card test system set-up - i.e.
one
> that allows easy access to both sides of the card being tested?
> 
> Thanks for any pointers ...

Take the motherboard out of the case!

-andy

----
Andy Peters
Sr. Electrical Engineer
National Optical Astronomy Observatories
apeters@noao.edu.NOSPAM

Article: 12023
Subject: Re: shareware
From: msimon@tefbbs.com
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 20:50:40 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Several FPGA companies have low cost (<$100) starter packages.

   XESS has a nice logic development package for $139

   Ultra Technology has a processor development board set for $555
                             http://wwwdnai.com/~jfox/fpgakit.htm

Simon
===============================================================
"adria.bofill" <adria.bofill@imag.fr> wrote:

>I am a newbie in vhdl-fpga.
>
>Does Anyone know free/shareware for fpga design?
>
>Thanx
>
>Adria Bofill

Article: 12024
Subject: Re: Xilinx ncd files
From: "Andy Peters" <apeters@noao.edu.NOSPAM>
Date: 24 Sep 1998 20:51:10 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Nick Hartl <"nhartl[no_spam]"@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<3604EC4A.70C43A67@earthlink.net>...
> 
> 
> Philip Freidin wrote:
> 
> > A major advantage of using this batchfile to process your
designs, is that
> > unlike Xilinx's design manager, it doesn't litter your disk with
10's
> > (or 100's ) of megabytes of unwanted files in \rev and \ver
directories.
> > I continue to be amazed that Xilinx's design manager goes to so
much
> > effort to maintain all these directories of files for different
revisions
> > and versions of your design, all of which could be recreated from
the
> > original design, but the one thing that it won't manage is the
revisions
> > of the design it-self, which is the only thing that actually
needs
> > revision control.
> >
> 
> *****Check the M1.5 Design Manager there is now a a feature to
allow copying of extra files i.e. the design files with each new
> version/revision. Menu Design=>Properties =>Version List.
> 
> You are right a rev with out a source is useless.  But now one can
save the source as well.
 
It's ABOUT TIME!

-- 
Andy Peters
Sr. Electrical Engineer
National Optical Astronomy Observatories
apeters@noao.edu.NOSPAM




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