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--------------4F507A82799B5ECEC7954F21 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let me make a constructive suggestion: We will publish a step-by-step cookbook how you can use the free version of HypeLynx to analyze output behavior with astounding accuracy and surprising ease. Here are just a few success stories, documenetd by Innoveda, the owners of HyperLynx. http://www.innoveda.com/products/datasheets_HTML/hyperlynx_success.asp Over the past years, progress in FPGAs has vastly simplified the logic design. Bigger chips, better technology, more advanced architectures, abundant routing, lots of cores, and more user-friendly software all have made your life so much more productive ( to avoid the dangerous word "easier"). But the electrical and the high-frequency analog aspects on the pc-board have gotten much more complex, and they affect every user, even the few remaining 10-MHz-clock-driven designs. These problems are not caused by the clock frequency, but only by the edge rates, the UHF components in the pc-board signals. And no VHDL or Verilog can help you there. That's what Austin meant when he mentioned the need to learn how to fish. Signal integrity is no longer a subject only for the speed-demons, it affects every design. We all have got lo learn this "new" discipline, whether we want to or not. And the available tools actually make it fun, once you master them. Peter Alfke ================================================= Austin Lesea wrote: > And what about my answer was poor? > > That we strongly recommend that you get the right tools to do the job? > > Tell you what, open up our web page, and do a search on signal integrity. > > Do the same for any other LOGIC supplier. > > Hands down, we win More content. More real useful stuff. More articles, > answers, tech topics, Xclusives, etc etc etc. > > If I give you a fish, I have fed you. If I teach you how to fish, you feed > yourself. > > Austin > > Speedy Zero Two wrote: > > > That's a poor response from Xilinx, > > I always thought customer support was one of their good points....... > > > > Dave > > > > "Austin Lesea" <austin.lesea@xilinx.com> wrote in message > > news:3BFC0B64.AB4353C4@xilinx.com... > > > JF, > > > > > > That is what the IBIS models are good for. > > > > > > If you do not have an IBIS simulator, it is like trying to build a house > > without > > > a hammer. > > > > > > Austin > > > > > > jfh wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I work with both virtex and virtex E and I am about to place and route > > my > > > > board but I wish I had the figures of the slew rate of the output > > buffers of > > > > a Virtex and virtex E in LVTTL for the different current grades and with > > the > > > > slow or fast slew rate option. Does anyone have that type of information > > > > because I could not find it ? > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > J.F. Hasson > > > --------------4F507A82799B5ECEC7954F21 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> Let me make a constructive suggestion: <p>We will publish a step-by-step cookbook how you can use the free version of HypeLynx to analyze output behavior with astounding accuracy and surprising ease. <br>Here are just a few success stories, documenetd by Innoveda, the owners of HyperLynx. <p><u><A HREF="http://www.innoveda.com/products/datasheets_HTML/hyperlynx_success.asp">http://www.innoveda.com/products/datasheets_HTML/hyperlynx_success.asp</A></u><u></u> <p>Over the past years, progress in FPGAs has vastly simplified the logic design. Bigger chips, better technology, more advanced architectures, abundant routing, lots of cores, and more user-friendly software all have made your life so much more productive ( to avoid the dangerous word "easier"). <br>But the electrical and the high-frequency analog aspects on the pc-board have gotten much more complex, and they affect every user, even the few remaining 10-MHz-clock-driven designs. These problems are not caused by the clock frequency, but only by the edge rates, the UHF components in the pc-board signals. <br>And no VHDL or Verilog can help you there. <br>That's what Austin meant when he mentioned the need to learn how to fish. <br>Signal integrity is no longer a subject only for the speed-demons, it affects every design. <br>We all have got lo learn this "new" discipline, whether we want to or not. <br>And the available tools actually make it fun, once you master them. <p>Peter Alfke <br>================================================= <br>Austin Lesea wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>And what about my answer was poor? <p>That we strongly recommend that you get the right tools to do the job? <p>Tell you what, open up our web page, and do a search on signal integrity. <p>Do the same for any other LOGIC supplier. <p>Hands down, we win More content. More real useful stuff. More articles, <br>answers, tech topics, Xclusives, etc etc etc. <p>If I give you a fish, I have fed you. If I teach you how to fish, you feed <br>yourself. <p>Austin <p>Speedy Zero Two wrote: <p>> That's a poor response from Xilinx, <br>> I always thought customer support was one of their good points....... <br>> <br>> Dave <br>> <br>> "Austin Lesea" <austin.lesea@xilinx.com> wrote in message <br>> <a href="news:3BFC0B64.AB4353C4@xilinx.com">news:3BFC0B64.AB4353C4@xilinx.com</a>... <br>> > JF, <br>> > <br>> > That is what the IBIS models are good for. <br>> > <br>> > If you do not have an IBIS simulator, it is like trying to build a house <br>> without <br>> > a hammer. <br>> > <br>> > Austin <br>> > <br>> > jfh wrote: <br>> > <br>> > > Hi, <br>> > > <br>> > > I work with both virtex and virtex E and I am about to place and route <br>> my <br>> > > board but I wish I had the figures of the slew rate of the output <br>> buffers of <br>> > > a Virtex and virtex E in LVTTL for the different current grades and with <br>> the <br>> > > slow or fast slew rate option. Does anyone have that type of information <br>> > > because I could not find it ? <br>> > > Thank you. <br>> > > <br>> > > J.F. Hasson <br>> ></blockquote> </html> --------------4F507A82799B5ECEC7954F21--Article: 36851
Rick Filipkiewicz wrote: > > If the the rule that high speed decouplers should be placed as close as > possible to the chip's power pins [I've heard ~1cm] isn't just more voodoo > then its rationale must be inductance again ? I am not clear what you are saying here. I was not saying that it is good to be inductive. I am saying that it does not matter if the cap is inductive, as long as the total impedance (including any trace impedance) is low. The impedance finds a sharp minimum at the self resonant frequency and then starts increasing again as frequency increases. Above this self resonant frequency the cap is net inductive. But the cap is still an effective decoupling component until the impedance rises enough to interfere with its operation. This can easily be 10X the freq of self inductance. > One other query I've got is that it seems that what's called decoupling > really covers 2 things: > > o Stopping high frequency noise generated externally from getting into the > chip via the power pins. > > o Dealing with self-injected noise from the chip driving very fast edges > into capacitive loads. > > In the second case, with edges in the 1-2 nsec range or faster it would > appear to me that the frequencies we are dealing with have 500MHz+ > components. In other words even 0402 caps will appear inductive ? When you say "driving very fast edges into capacitive loads" I assume you are talking about the current spike required from the power bus to change the voltage on an output. Yes this has very fast frequency components. But the impedance of a cap is still effective in reducing the amplitude of the voltage spike on the power bus even when the cap is above the self resonant freq. The AVX chart shows an 0805 MLCC cap as having about 3 or 4 ohms impedance at 500 Mhz. With some 20 mA switching on that power pin, you will see less than 0.1 volt of noise. The fact that it is inductive reactance does not matter! -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAXArticle: 36853
I'm using Xilinx Foundation Student Edition Ver.2.1i and "The Xilinx Practical Designer Lab Book 1.5". The exercise is a 4x4 Asynchronous Memory, the source code in the book and also the source code on the CD return the error messages below. These error messages occur when I check for syntax errors. Since, I am not a student I'm assuming that form my past experience I can not ask for help on "The Xilinx University" ( MSU ) student website. Error: C:/xcproj-v/mem1_40/mem1.vhd line -3 Library logical name XSE is not mapped to a host directory. (VSS-1071) (FPGA-dm-hdlc-unknown) Error L5/C0 : #0 Error: C:/xcproj-v/mem1_40/mem1.vhd line 5 No selected element named LED is defined for this prefix. (VSS-573) Error L21/C0 : #0 Error: C:/xcproj-v/mem1_40/mem1.vhd line 21 The intermediate file for entity MEM1 is not in the library bound to WORK. (VSS-1084) 3 error(s) 0 warning(s) found Line and Text: 3 LIBRARY IEEE,xse; 5 Use xse.led.ALL; 21 ARCHITECTURE mem1_arch OF mem1 ISArticle: 36854
Don't know if is generated. I'm trying to see if Foundation automatically generates VHDL for schematic designs I have made, and if so where can I find these files! adrianArticle: 36855
Hi, I'm using a programmable clock which has an accuracy of 1 part per million. i.e. I can set f = 1.000000 MHz. However, I need a clock with a resolution of 1 part per billion ie. f can be set to 1.000000000 MHz and does not vary over a period of at least 5 minutes. Is there anything I can add to my FPGA design to achieve this? Clock will be running at approximately 32MHz. thanks adrianArticle: 36856
I'm a Phd student and I'm working on Xilinx XC4000 project. I've used schematic editor of ORCAD.I want to learn that is XC4000 series allows functionality to specified in terms of equationrather than gates, like CLB primitive in XC3000 series. if it is possible how can I do. I haven't successed this using FMAP. Is possible help me about this problem? thanks. Regards, sema KOÇArticle: 36857
Hi, I must fix a NOT gate to a cretain location and the gate is in form of LUT1 in Xilinx XCV1000E. I can use the RLOC/LOC to give a location like R12C3.S0 under Synopsys DC. But I want to give more constrain to the location (i.e. in F-function or G-function LUT inside a slide). What can I do? Thanks in advance! ---- BrittleArticle: 36858
Hi, I am more like in the VHDL engineer...and let me tell you that you guys give me hard work to follow all that you say !!! But it is very interesting. I have ordered the book that HW Johnson wrote. I think I will need to spend a bit of time reading it. > Hmm, try redestributiing the capacitance into less caps, but dont forget to > use small ones (10nF or lower) for the "really" high frequencys. In > microwave engineering they use sometimes even 100pF instead of 1nF because > of the lower inductance. > And dont forget a good ground-VCC planes. In your layer stacking, the > GND-VCC planes should be close together, forming a superb high frequncy > capacitor. Is it a question of impedance between the two planes ? Thanks again to all of you for your help. Philippe.Article: 36859
Hi I am using APEX20K, and I know that there is no build in tristate buffer in PAEX, but xilinx device have build in tri state buffer, so a tri state buffer in APEX will occupy a LE, right? I have a register file with 32 entry, and 3 read port, so if I use 3 mux tree to select desire register, then this register file will consume about 4000 LE, so want to use tri state signal to replace mux tree, but after that, the register file's size do not change too much, how to deal with this?Article: 36860
Hi, Can anybody help me with this: I've got a process with 2 inout busses (8 bits wide) named PDi and PDo. When my "Normal_IO" signal is deasserted I want to put some data from another prcoess on the PDo bus, and do nothing with the PDi bus. But (and this is my problem) when "Normal_IO" is asserted I want to simply tie PDi and PDo together, so it's 'transparent' both ways. Is this possible ?? And what should the VHDL code for such a construction look like ?? Thanx, H.Article: 36861
I am currently using Synplify Pro v7.0. I am designing in VHDL and the target device is Xilinx - Virtex. The design utilises the Block RAM available on the Virtex. With the aid of the VHDL generate statement the BRAMs are multiply instantiated. However, when the design is synthesised the BRAMs are renamed with numbers appended to the end???? This is also the case when I use Synplify version back to v6.1.3. Does anyone know any way to prevent this as it causes problems in Xilinx Design Manager?Article: 36862
In article <ninit9.nl2.ln@svr004.rohill.nl>, Harjo Otten <h.otten@rohill.geen.spam.nl> writes >Hi, > >Can anybody help me with this: > >I've got a process with 2 inout busses (8 bits wide) named PDi and PDo. >When my "Normal_IO" signal is deasserted I want to put some data from >another prcoess on the PDo bus, and do nothing with the PDi bus. But (and >this is my problem) when "Normal_IO" is asserted I want to simply tie PDi >and PDo together, so it's 'transparent' both ways. Is this possible ?? And >what should the VHDL code for such a construction look like ?? See the recent thread "How to write a 'relay'" in comp.lang.vhdl for lots of information on why this is almost impossible in VHDL. It's easy in Verilog; just instantiate a "tran" primitive: tranif1( PDi[0], PDo[0], Normal_IO ); and so on, eight times for the eight bits (because Verilog doesn't have a generate statement, at least until Verilog-2001 is fully implemented by tool vendors, grrrr!). No synthesis tool I know of will cope with this, though. It would need to synthesise to pass transistors. You can easily implement it in hardware with "QuickSwitch" components, but not on an FPGA as far as I know. -- Jonathan Bromley DOULOS Ltd. Church Hatch, 22 Market Place, Ringwood, Hampshire BH24 1AW, United Kingdom Tel: +44 1425 471223 Email: jonathan.bromley@doulos.com Fax: +44 1425 471573 Web: http://www.doulos.com ********************************** ** Developing design know-how ** ********************************** This e-mail and any attachments are confidential and Doulos Ltd. reserves all rights of privilege in respect thereof. It is intended for the use of the addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system, any use, disclosure, or copying of this document is unauthorised. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views of Doulos Ltd., unless specifically stated.Article: 36863
Maire <maire.mcloone@ee.qub.ac.uk> wrote: > I am currently using Synplify Pro v7.0. I am designing in VHDL and the > target device is Xilinx - Virtex. The design utilises the Block RAM > available on the Virtex. With the aid of the VHDL generate statement the > BRAMs are multiply instantiated. However, when the design is synthesised > the BRAMs are renamed with numbers appended to the end???? This is also > the case when I use Synplify version back to v6.1.3. > Does anyone know any way to prevent this as it causes problems in Xilinx > Design Manager? It's caused by the generics. You will need to put -- synthesis translate_off/on around the generic map on your instantiation, and possibly around the generic section on your component declaration too if relevant. If you are initializing the contents using a generic, you have to put that information in an attribute instead. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <hamish@debian.org> <hamish@cloud.net.au>Article: 36864
rickman <spamgoeshere4@yahoo.com> writes: > When you say "driving very fast edges into capacitive loads" I assume > you are talking about the current spike required from the power bus to > change the voltage on an output. Yes this has very fast frequency > components. But the impedance of a cap is still effective in reducing > the amplitude of the voltage spike on the power bus even when the cap is > above the self resonant freq. The AVX chart shows an 0805 MLCC cap as > having about 3 or 4 ohms impedance at 500 Mhz. With some 20 mA switching > on that power pin, you will see less than 0.1 volt of noise. The fact > that it is inductive reactance does not matter! > Just be careful that the way you mount the capacitors doesn't add too muc more inductance to the capacitor's inherent inductance. Vias on the end of traces from the cap pads can be 4nH. My last design I had caps mounted on a large plane pad with several (3-4) vias through each end. This should add 1nH ish. Then you are relying on the planes having a low spreading inductance to deliver the power to the chip, which must also be mounted on *really* short traces. Cheers, Martin -- martin.j.thompson@trw.com TRW Conekt, Solihull, UK http://www.trw.com/conektArticle: 36865
Hi, We are currently preparing an urgent bid for a customer in which our product incorporates one of the discontinued Phillips/Xilinx 5V coolrunner parts (XCR5128C-10TQ128I) - a package type for which we know of no direct equivalent. Unfortunately we have managed to pick a time when the whole of the US is shut down and cannot contact Xilinx directly - so I wondered whether anyone here has any idea whether there is any possibility that Xilinx may have uncommitted stock for approximately 500 to 1000 parts? Alternatively, does anyone know of any specialist supplier that is likely to carry stock of this obsolete part? Thanks in advance, Dave Watkins BAE SYSTEMS Rochester EnglandArticle: 36866
Nice try. 52 isn't prime and it worked. So did 48, and it has 2 and 3 in it's prime factorization. Thanks for the chuckle though, D. "Kevin Neilson" <kevin_neilson@removethis-yahoo.com> wrote in message news:_aYK7.158834$IR4.55129103@news1.denver1.co.home.com... > Fortunately I am an expert on numerology. 53 is prime, and has a good aura, > whereas 54 is not prime and has both 2's and 3's in its prime factorization, > which gives it bad karma. > > "Dave Brown" <dbrown@novatel.ca> wrote in message > news:9thcq5$34m$1@pallas.novatel.ca... > > Hi everyone, > > I have a SpartanXL XCS-05 design that is a memory mapped device. One > of > > the memory addresses is supposed to be an 8 bit version register that > > reflects the version of VHDL code that was used to synthesize the design. > I > > implemented this as generic integer in my top level module that gets > passed > > down to the address decoder. This way, I can just change the generic in > the > > top level. When the version address shows up on the address bus, I return > > this generic using conv_unsigned(version, 8). This has worked fine. Until > > today, when I got to version 54. Now my design won't fit onto the chip. I > > was at about 95% of 4-LUTs used up with version 53. With 54 as the > version, > > I get 103% of 4 input LUT's used. I thought maybe this was because of the > > changes, so I went back to the code for version 53 and just changed the > > generic to 54. Presto, it doesn't fit into the design. I'm stumped. What's > > special about 54 vs 53? Nothing in my mind. Every number up to 54 worked > > fine. Hmm, any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > > > > > >Article: 36867
Adrian wrote: > Don't know if is generated. I'm trying to see if Foundation automatically generates VHDL for schematic designs I have made, and if so where can I find these files! > > adrian You might try opening your top-level schematic in the schematic editor and then exporting the netlist as VHDL using Options->Export Netlist... and then select VHDL as the file type. -- || Dr. Dave Van den Bout XESS Corp. (919) 387-0076 || || devb@xess.com 2608 Sweetgum Dr. (800) 549-9377 || || http://www.xess.com Apex, NC 27502 USA FAX:(919) 387-1302 ||Article: 36868
hi, I am also new to this area. I think Schematic is in lower level than the vhdl code as you are directly use the components available in the library, I mean there is no necessity to create the VHDL . If you have a FSM design ( using the FSM editor) then it is in some upper layer and so VHDL code is created for that one. Gurus please explain more Ramnath Adrian <g9731642@campus.ru.ac.za> wrote in message news:<ee73477.1@WebX.sUN8CHnE>... > Don't know if is generated. I'm trying to see if Foundation automatically generates VHDL for schematic designs I have made, and if so where can I find these files! > > adrianArticle: 36869
Have you tried any number that is bigger than 54? I was wondering if there is a pattern in the version numbers which makes your design not fit. Or maybe it is just the randomness that causes the optimization/synthesis algorithms not to work. Jim "Dave Brown" <dbrown@novatel.ca> wrote in message news:9tj8na$k4j$1@pallas.novatel.ca... > Nice try. 52 isn't prime and it worked. So did 48, and it has 2 and 3 in > it's prime factorization. > Thanks for the chuckle though, > D. > "Kevin Neilson" <kevin_neilson@removethis-yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:_aYK7.158834$IR4.55129103@news1.denver1.co.home.com... > > Fortunately I am an expert on numerology. 53 is prime, and has a good > aura, > > whereas 54 is not prime and has both 2's and 3's in its prime > factorization, > > which gives it bad karma. > > > > "Dave Brown" <dbrown@novatel.ca> wrote in message > > news:9thcq5$34m$1@pallas.novatel.ca... > > > Hi everyone, > > > I have a SpartanXL XCS-05 design that is a memory mapped device. One > > of > > > the memory addresses is supposed to be an 8 bit version register that > > > reflects the version of VHDL code that was used to synthesize the > design. > > I > > > implemented this as generic integer in my top level module that gets > > passed > > > down to the address decoder. This way, I can just change the generic in > > the > > > top level. When the version address shows up on the address bus, I > return > > > this generic using conv_unsigned(version, 8). This has worked fine. > Until > > > today, when I got to version 54. Now my design won't fit onto the chip. > I > > > was at about 95% of 4-LUTs used up with version 53. With 54 as the > > version, > > > I get 103% of 4 input LUT's used. I thought maybe this was because of > the > > > changes, so I went back to the code for version 53 and just changed the > > > generic to 54. Presto, it doesn't fit into the design. I'm stumped. > What's > > > special about 54 vs 53? Nothing in my mind. Every number up to 54 worked > > > fine. Hmm, any ideas? > > > Thanks, > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Article: 36870
Am using Altera Quartus II Web edition for some simple designs for my students. My question is: how to fork bus in BDF file using this tool? For example, I'm trying to use 2 4-bit adders to create 8-bit adder and I would like to separate op0[7..0] input to op0[3..0] input of low-nibbles 4-bit adder and op0[3..0] input of high-nibbles 4-bit adder. Thanks.Article: 36871
Try also www.arrow.com as they have online prices for most devices. In general however it depends on how many of a particular device you want to buy. Tobias Stumber wrote: > Hi ! > > Could anyone give a quick guess for the price of a > Altera EP20K200E in a PQ208 Package (mid speed grade) > and for the Actel A500K270 in this package (if applicable). > > I need this for a very rough price comparison with Xilinx > and dont want to wake up sleeping dogs at the distributors. > > (The freetradezone does only give me the approx. price for > the Xilinx part, 100 quantity.) > > Regards, TobiasArticle: 36872
On Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:29:03 +0100, "Harjo Otten" <h.otten@rohill.geen.spam.nl> wrote: >Hi, > >Can anybody help me with this: > >I've got a process with 2 inout busses (8 bits wide) named PDi and PDo. >When my "Normal_IO" signal is deasserted I want to put some data from >another prcoess on the PDo bus, and do nothing with the PDi bus. But (and >this is my problem) when "Normal_IO" is asserted I want to simply tie PDi >and PDo together, so it's 'transparent' both ways. Is this possible ?? And >what should the VHDL code for such a construction look like ?? Let me try to steer you to a different direction where you don't need this construct at all. How do you really use a truly transparent bus ? You obviously need some arbitration because two sides can't be driving the bus to arbitraty values at the same time. Maybe you're using one pin on the bus as a control signal to see who can talk ? Isolate the arbitration logic and use it to change the transparent bus to a bi-directional bus. Muzaffer Kal http://www.dspia.com DSP algorithm implementations for FPGA systemsArticle: 36873
http://www.pldworld.com/_altera/html/toolman/quartus_tutorial.pdf has an example. Jim "Crni Gorac" <cgorac@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:cb2002fc.0111220955.1033a5cb@posting.google.com... > Am using Altera Quartus II Web edition for some simple designs for my > students. My question is: how to fork bus in BDF file using this tool? > For example, I'm trying to use 2 4-bit adders to create 8-bit adder > and I would like to separate op0[7..0] input to op0[3..0] input of > low-nibbles 4-bit adder and op0[3..0] input of high-nibbles 4-bit > adder. > > Thanks.Article: 36874
As I understand it, unlike Xilinx, Altera does not put a tri-state buffer anywhere in their chip except for in the I/O cell. So you have to use the cleaner mux strategy. But not to worry. The 4 input look up table structure that makes up most sram FPGA's can implement wide muxes fairly efficiently if not slowly. For example a 32 input mux could be build using 11 look up tables. So you've got no problem fitting in that Altera part you mentioned. shengyu_shen@hotmail.com (ssy) wrote in message news:<f4a5f64f.0111211827.4c31d734@posting.google.com>... > in my design, I have a 32 entry 3 read and 2 write register file, > each entry hold 32 bits. > > so each read port have 31 mux to select out the desire register,3 read > port nead nearly 100 mux, each mux is 32 bit width, so total 3000 mux > needed|||, it is a large number for my APEX20K400E, > > so I want to use tristate signal output for every entry,and tie them > together to replace the large mux tree,but if it is a problem 32 > tristate signal drive a port? > > or any other suggestion to deal with this too large register file?
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