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Messages from 74475

Article: 74475
Subject: Re: direct calculation of the modulus ?
From: Tuukka Toivonen <tuukkat@killspam.ee.oulu.finland.invalid>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:19:45 +0000 (UTC)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
In article <acc68109.0410120613.6e669b1b@posting.google.com>, mete wrote:
> Is there method that is more efficient than regular division for
> calculating modulus ?

Depends on the modulus. For example, if you want to calculate
	x mod 2^4
you can just take take the four lowest bits and set the rest
to zero. For more complex or non-fixed moduli it's more difficult.

Article: 74476
Subject: Re: Actel Fusefile Reverse Engineering
From: Mike Treseler <mike_treseler@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:23:32 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Wong wrote:
> tatto0_2000@yahoo.com (Wong) wrote in message news:<509bfe22.0410110029.3a3cccc0@posting.google.com>...

>>  I am a Actel 54SXA family user. I would like to get from the
>>fusefile what I/O standard I have selected in my Designer software
>>(i.e. PCI, LVTTL). Is that possible ? I am doing so because I have
>>been messed up my files and I cant trace back.

If you don't remember, it's probably the default.
Check with Actel and measure a programmed device for
output swing and input thresholds.

        -- Mike Treseler

Article: 74477
Subject: xilinx VP20 and SDRAM
From: qudhs <qudhs@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:38:35 +0300
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi!

I have a XilinxVP20 chip with 2 PPC cores and a 32M SDRAM. what I want
to do is to use the SDRAM as instruction memory for one of the PPC
cores, but I couldn't figure out how to upload the instruction data onto
the SDRAM.

thanks in advance!
-yang


Article: 74478
Subject: Re: DCM for generating higher frequencies.
From: Austin Lesea <austin@xilinx.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:41:22 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Raghavendra,

Yes.

M=16, D=1 will multiply the 20 MHz on CLKIN to 320 MHZ on CLKFX output.

The clock GUI assumes that you are also using the DLL feature at the 
same time (ie CLKFB is connected) and it applies the minimum input clock 
frequency for that feature.  If you are using the synthesizer only, the 
input frequency is not limited (except by the resulting output frequency 
as a choice of M and D).

Austin

Raghavendra wrote:
> Hi all,
>    Given a clock of 20Mhz can I generate 320Mhz clock output using
> single DCM in Xilinx FPGA?
> 
> Regards
> Raghavendra.Sortur.

Article: 74479
Subject: Re: GLKP and GLKS
From: Vivek <>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:14:22 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I am using the virtex II. Sorry about that.

Article: 74480
Subject: Re: Reading RAM while
From: "John_H" <johnhandwork@mail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:24:51 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
"Yaseen Zaidi" <yaseenzaidi@NETZERO.com> wrote in message
news:a31921fc.0410120224.23a6ab0a@posting.google.com...
> This may sound trivial but why is data being output (read) on the out
> port during the write cycle in the Xilinx inferred RAM examples such
> as:
>
>  if (CLK'event and CLK = '1') then
>          if (en = '1') then
>             if (we = '1') then
>                ram(conv_integer(unsigned(addr))) <= di;
>                do                                <= di;
>                else
>                do <= ram(conv_integer(unsigned(addr)));
[snip]

If you want the read data to stay unchanged during a write, you *might* be
able to get a good inference for the Viertex-II/Spartan-3 and later devices
but you'd probably have to instantiate it or apply the constraint manually.
There's a "WRITE_MODE" constraint for each of the two ports that can be set
to "NO_CHANGE" if you like, keeping the read data on the port through the
write.



Article: 74481
Subject: Initializing Block Ram of a partial Bitstream
From: iarunkumar@hotmail.com (Arun)
Date: 12 Oct 2004 08:29:29 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hello,

   Does anybody know how to initialize a BlockRam of a PARTIAL
BITSTREAM with an elf file?

Arun

Article: 74482
Subject: EP1C12 or XC3S400?
From: "Arash Salarian" <arash.salarian@epfl.ch>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:36:26 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi,

I've seen this prototype board from Altium that seems to have a very good 
price: http://www.altium.com/livedesign/
It comes in two flavours: one with an Altera Cyclone series EP1C12F324C8 and 
the other one with a Xilinx Spartand 3 XC3S400-4F456C. Both options have the 
same price of $99. Besides the FPGA, the both kits are exactly the same 
thing.
My question is which one to select? Personally, I'd rather select the BIGGER 
one but I don't know which one it is. I know it is very difficult to compare 
the SIZE of two FPGAs with very different architectures.
I used to compare the total number of the programmable flipflops in the 
FPGAs as my index. (it can be discussed if it is indeed a good index or not, 
but I think for syncronous and NORMAL designs this is much better than fuzzy 
things like system gates etc.). It seems that EP1C12 has much more FFs in 
the programable sections than XC3S400.
So what do you think? Do you think EP1C12 is bigger than XC3S400? For 
designs that would be more of DSP type which one is better? And what for 
designs with a small processor inside?
Well, one option is to buy both of them as you can easily cascade them an 
use them together in peace :)

Regards
Arash



Article: 74483
Subject: Re: DCM for generating higher frequencies.
From: Austin Lesea <austin@xilinx.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:24:34 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
More:

Looks like the data sheet has a spec of 50 MHz as the min for the CLKIN 
for the DFS in high frequency mode.

Not sure how that got in there....

Researching that now.  M=16 with Fin = 20 MHz does get you to 320 MHz 
output.

It may also be that the jitter is not so great with large M's and small 
input clock frequencies (greater than 10% of the period), so I have to 
get the jitter calculator to also let me enter 20 MHz in HF mode to see 
what it tells me.

Austin

Austin Lesea wrote:
> Raghavendra,
> 
> Yes.
> 
> M=16, D=1 will multiply the 20 MHz on CLKIN to 320 MHZ on CLKFX output.
> 
> The clock GUI assumes that you are also using the DLL feature at the 
> same time (ie CLKFB is connected) and it applies the minimum input clock 
> frequency for that feature.  If you are using the synthesizer only, the 
> input frequency is not limited (except by the resulting output frequency 
> as a choice of M and D).
> 
> Austin
> 
> Raghavendra wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>    Given a clock of 20Mhz can I generate 320Mhz clock output using
>> single DCM in Xilinx FPGA?
>>
>> Regards
>> Raghavendra.Sortur.

Article: 74484
Subject: level converter for high frequencies
From: "Stefan Oedenkoven" <stefan-oedenkoven@gmx.de>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:48:38 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi ng,

i'm currently building a serial controller between a 5V FPGA and a 3.3V
microcontroller. Maybe someone of you can tell me, if there exists any
common electronic component which can convert digital signals at ~ 1MHz with
high level varying from 3.0 to 5.0 Volt and should output a signal with high
level at 3.3Volt . (low level is always 0V)

first i tried to build a simple voltage divider with two resistors, which
was only acceptable with stable 0V Low /5V High input... the other problem
is a fixed input capacitor at the 3.3V device of 50pF which - in combination
with my voltage divider - passed only low frequencies.

thanks in advance,
Stefan




Article: 74485
Subject: Re: Actel Fusefile Reverse Engineering
From: "Gregory C. Read" <readgc.invalid@hotmail.com.invalid>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:54:55 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
"Wong" <tatto0_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:509bfe22.0410120231.5a0db886@posting.google.com...
> tatto0_2000@yahoo.com (Wong) wrote in message
news:<509bfe22.0410110029.3a3cccc0@posting.google.com>...
> > Hi,
> >   I am a Actel 54SXA family user. I would like to get from the
> > fusefile what I/O standard I have selected in my Designer software
> > (i.e. PCI, LVTTL). Is that possible ? I am doing so because I have
> > been messed up my files and I cant trace back.
> >   Thanks in advance.
>
> Any answer ? Please .....

This might work. Create a new design and compile it twice to get the same
format fusefile, once with PCI and once with LVTTL without making any other
changes. Then compare the two files to see what's different. Then see if the
difference is evident in your old fusefile.

-- 
Greg
readgc.invalid@hotmail.com.invalid
(Remove the '.invalid' twice to send Email)



Article: 74486
Subject: Re: DCM for generating higher frequencies.
From: Austin Lesea <austin@xilinx.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:24:29 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Further,

Baased on the jitter predictor:

Fin = 20 MHz, Fout = 320 MHz, M=16, D = 1

Output period = ~ 3.12
Period jitter = 700 ps p-p (worst case)
Period Jitter = 22.2%

Not a very good quality clock, as you have to deal with the worst case 
jitter divided by two taking away from your timing margin (worst case 
shortest possible period).

Austin

Austin Lesea wrote:
> More:
> 
> Looks like the data sheet has a spec of 50 MHz as the min for the CLKIN 
> for the DFS in high frequency mode.
> 
> Not sure how that got in there....
> 
> Researching that now.  M=16 with Fin = 20 MHz does get you to 320 MHz 
> output.
> 
> It may also be that the jitter is not so great with large M's and small 
> input clock frequencies (greater than 10% of the period), so I have to 
> get the jitter calculator to also let me enter 20 MHz in HF mode to see 
> what it tells me.
> 
> Austin
> 
> Austin Lesea wrote:
> 
>> Raghavendra,
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> M=16, D=1 will multiply the 20 MHz on CLKIN to 320 MHZ on CLKFX output.
>>
>> The clock GUI assumes that you are also using the DLL feature at the 
>> same time (ie CLKFB is connected) and it applies the minimum input 
>> clock frequency for that feature.  If you are using the synthesizer 
>> only, the input frequency is not limited (except by the resulting 
>> output frequency as a choice of M and D).
>>
>> Austin
>>
>> Raghavendra wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>    Given a clock of 20Mhz can I generate 320Mhz clock output using
>>> single DCM in Xilinx FPGA?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Raghavendra.Sortur.

Article: 74487
Subject: Re: Flex10K10A, I2C, MultiVolt IO, pull-ups
From: "Markus Fuchs" <m.fuchs@fplusp.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 19:58:16 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
rickman wrote:
> I believe when you say "4,7V" you mean what we call 4.7 volts in the US,
> no?

Damn, just gave myself away! <grin>
English is not my native language, but you're right: I meant 4.7 volts.

Jim Granville wrote:
>   If the PIC is always the master, you could try making the SCL line
> always CMOS drive : In single master, only SDA needs to be open drain.

I already tried that without success.

>   That will ensure faster clock edges - what you describe is a
> little counter-intuitive, esp as you say the resistor change had
> no effect, but sounds closest to edge-effects.
>   FPGAs tend to be slow edge intolerant.

Thank you Jim, that was it! I put a buffer between the PIC and the FPGA on
the SCL line and now it works.
So, what do you, Jim, Rick and all the other experts, recommend to get the
edges on the I2C lines faster?
There must be another solution for it, I guess, since buffers won't work on
bidir lines.

Thank you!
Markus

PS: Microchip says max. rise/fall time for the I2C lines are 300ns! :-(



Article: 74488
Subject: Re: level converter for high frequencies
From: Christoph Brinkhaus <c.brinkhaus@t-online.de>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:35:41 +0200
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Stefan Oedenkoven <stefan-oedenkoven@gmx.de> wrote:
> Hi ng,
> 
Hi Stefan!
> i'm currently building a serial controller between a 5V FPGA and a 3.3V
> microcontroller. Maybe someone of you can tell me, if there exists any
> common electronic component which can convert digital signals at ~ 1MHz with
> high level varying from 3.0 to 5.0 Volt and should output a signal with high
> level at 3.3Volt . (low level is always 0V)
>
Please look for "voltage translator". There are some ICs available for
this purpose. You can also build them with two transtors in common base
configuration. If you google for transistor voltage translator you
should find it, if I am wrong just send me a mail.

Best regards,

Christoph 
> 
> 

Article: 74489
Subject: Re: direct calculation of the modulus ?
From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:39:10 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>


mete wrote:

> Is there method that is more efficient than regular division for
> calculating modulus ?

For specific input base and modulus there is usually an
efficient way.  For decimal input and modulus of 3 or 9,
you can add the digits together, and take the modulus of
the sum.  For binary input there are even more rules, but
the modulus must be known in advance.  If the modulus
is variable, I don't know of a general formula.

-- glen


Article: 74490
Subject: Re: Actel Fusefile Reverse Engineering
From: Jim Granville <no.spam@designtools.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:48:42 +1300
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Wong wrote:
> tatto0_2000@yahoo.com (Wong) wrote in message news:<509bfe22.0410110029.3a3cccc0@posting.google.com>...
> 
>>Hi,
>>  I am a Actel 54SXA family user. I would like to get from the
>>fusefile what I/O standard I have selected in my Designer software
>>(i.e. PCI, LVTTL). Is that possible ? I am doing so because I have
>>been messed up my files and I cant trace back.
>>  Thanks in advance.
> 
> 
> Any answer ? Please .....

  Take your design, and change ONLY the I/O standard in the area
you are unsure about, then compare the final fuse files.
  When you have the I/O standard matching, the files will
compare without error.
  [ This presumes your design has NOT changed in the meantime... ]
Or, you could go to your backup files, as the I/O standard is
unlikely to have changed since the PCB was designed ?
-jg


Article: 74491
Subject: Re: level converter for high frequencies
From: "Symon" <symon_brewer@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:49:48 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Stefan,
TI do a CB3T family. What do you mean by common? They're common as muck in
my designs!
http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/scda008/scda008.pdf
Cheers, Syms.
"Stefan Oedenkoven" <stefan-oedenkoven@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:2t2g73F1qfp5eU1@uni-berlin.de...
> i'm currently building a serial controller between a 5V FPGA and a 3.3V
> microcontroller. Maybe someone of you can tell me, if there exists any
> common electronic component which can convert digital signals at ~ 1MHz
with
> high level varying from 3.0 to 5.0 Volt and should output a signal with
high
> level at 3.3Volt . (low level is always 0V)



Article: 74492
Subject: Re: level converter for high frequencies
From: Jim Granville <no.spam@designtools.co.nz>
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:58:18 +1300
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Stefan Oedenkoven wrote:

> Hi ng,
> 
> i'm currently building a serial controller between a 5V FPGA and a 3.3V
> microcontroller. Maybe someone of you can tell me, if there exists any
> common electronic component which can convert digital signals at ~ 1MHz with
> high level varying from 3.0 to 5.0 Volt and should output a signal with high
> level at 3.3Volt . (low level is always 0V)
> 
> first i tried to build a simple voltage divider with two resistors, which
> was only acceptable with stable 0V Low /5V High input... the other problem
> is a fixed input capacitor at the 3.3V device of 50pF which - in combination
> with my voltage divider - passed only low frequencies.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> Stefan

Two options:
a) A lot (most new familes?) of CMOS Logic devices ( TI, Philips, 
Fairchild et al ) have overdrive tolerance, so poered from 3.3V, they do 
not mind 5V overdrive on IPs.
  Use a set of these, powered, and in the direction as needed.

b) New are level converters, with dual Vccs, from TI, and IIRC 
Fairchild. These are a more precise solution, and will give
lower Icc levels. Driving a 5V powered TTL threshold gate with >2.4V hi, 
works in the Logic sense, but it does draw IP buffer current, so
if you are worried about static Icc, the level converters can be
a better solution.

-jg



Article: 74493
Subject: Interfacing from the analogue domain
From: Thomas Womack <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date: 12 Oct 2004 20:27:58 +0100 (BST)
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
OK, I have a board with an XC2S150 on it, and a load of I/O pins; the
wiring on the board and the configuration of the default IP blocks on
the FPGA appears to set the pins up as LVTTL.

On the other side of the room, I have some photo-diodes and some
LM324N op-amps.  If I rig up an op-amp as a comparator, I can get a
signal which swings from 0V to ... umm ... inspect the datasheet
... Vcc - 1.5V.

Is there some easy way I can set up the IOBs so that the FPGA believes
that 0V is a zero and 1.8V a one?  Or should I rig up another battery
to increase the supply voltage to the op-amp by 1.5V or so; in that
case I might be setting the input voltage on an FPGA pin to slightly
greater than the supply voltage to the FPGA, which seems likely to
be painful.

I've had a look at Schmidt triggers and the like, but, whilst
something like a 7414 has output swinging neatly from one supply line
to the other, it seems, when running from 3.3V, to want a 2.5V input
to switch the output on.

These diode drops weren't such a problem when power supplies were 5V,
but I can't see what to do when the total I have to play with is 3.3V.

Tom


Article: 74494
Subject: Re: Interfacing from the analogue domain
From: "Symon" <symon_brewer@hotmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:34:07 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Thomas,
If you read the datasheet you'll find out that the IOB set in PCI33 mode has
Vih (min) = 60% of Vccint = 0.6 x 2.5V = 1.5V. There you go....
Cheers, Syms.
"Thomas Womack" <twomack@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:AEz*pWWwq@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
> Is there some easy way I can set up the IOBs so that the FPGA believes
> that 0V is a zero and 1.8V a one?  Or should I rig up another battery



Article: 74495
Subject: Re: Interfacing from the analogue domain
From: glen herrmannsfeldt <gah@ugcs.caltech.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:39:17 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>


Thomas Womack wrote:

(snip)

> On the other side of the room, I have some photo-diodes and some
> LM324N op-amps.  If I rig up an op-amp as a comparator, I can get a
> signal which swings from 0V to ... umm ... inspect the datasheet
> ... Vcc - 1.5V.
> 
> Is there some easy way I can set up the IOBs so that the FPGA believes
> that 0V is a zero and 1.8V a one?  Or should I rig up another battery
> to increase the supply voltage to the op-amp by 1.5V or so; in that
> case I might be setting the input voltage on an FPGA pin to slightly
> greater than the supply voltage to the FPGA, which seems likely to
> be painful.

How about a series diode and pull up resistor to increase
by 0.7V?   Hopefully not too small of a resistor would
be needed.

-- glen


Article: 74496
Subject: Re: Routing PLL output
From: Ben Twijnstra <btwijnstra@chello.nl>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 20:53:16 GMT
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Hi Andre,

> "Differential" is the wrong expression. I need
> inverted clocks on a 3,3V logic level.

Ooops... that complicates things a bit, since LVDS is only 2.5V in a
Cyclone, and probably not enough voltage swing as well.

I suggest that you use normal I/O pins to generate the clock, or maybe use
some external device to make sure that the LVDS I/Os are brought to a level
that is acceptable for the recipient.

What was your base frequency again, and what is the output frequency?

Best regards,



Ben


Article: 74497
Subject: Re: multiplexing clocks
From: Jonathan <>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:53:32 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Peter,

All three are always running. They are all around 60 MHz. I never switch to a stuck clock, all three clocks come from an external source that is always running. THe idea is to test each of these clocks. Is the best solution to cascade the bufgmuxes then?

Article: 74498
Subject: Re: VHDL code for Type and Components
From: Joe <>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:00:30 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
Brad,

This will work if you declare the state types in a separate package file.

Joe

Article: 74499
Subject: Re: multiplexing clocks
From: Peter Alfke <peter@xilinx.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:39:38 -0700
Links: << >>  << T >>  << A >>
I suggest you use two cascaded versions of the circuit I published in XCell,
and that you can also find in TechXcusives (#6 of Six Easy Pieces). I know
and trust that that circuit works even with asynchronous select inputs, and
it is very easy to analyze, since everything is out in the open. You need
four slices, since each flip-flop has its own clock.
I suppose you could do the same thing with two BUFGMUX circuits, but they
are not that easy to analyze.
The moment you said "free-running", the problem became trivial. But
switching away from a dead clock is a real bear...
Peter Alfke

> From: Jonathan <>
> Organization: (none)
> Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:53:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: multiplexing clocks
> 
> Peter,
> 
> All three are always running. They are all around 60 MHz. I never switch to a
> stuck clock, all three clocks come from an external source that is always
> running. THe idea is to test each of these clocks. Is the best solution to
> cascade the bufgmuxes then?




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